Thursday, June 21, 2012
Two 9/11 Experiments by Jonathan Cole
Civil engineer and 9/11 Truther Jonathan Cole conducted two important experiments that he recorded on video. First, "The Mysterious Eutectic Steel" and second, "The Great Thermate Debate", and ends with the question, "Isn't it time we use physical science rather than political science to investigate 9/11?"
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16 comments:
Already debunked, dummy:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=197140
Thanks for the link, Anon. I wouldn't call it "debunked." To debunk it, an experiment needs to be performed to show that the steel could be corroded with what was known to be present in the building, besides thermate.
In other words, we need more experiments.
It appears that the debunking has been debunked.
BTW, when people call me "dummy," "nutbag," "psycho," etc., it's a sure sign that they're scared.
I dont see any response to sun stealer, and if you think I'm scared of you then I'll simply conclude that are a nose hair away from becoming a vegetable. Your brain is mush.
I thought this answered sun stealer's point rather well:
"Mr. Nobles continually makes the argument that since whatever corroded the steel only approached 1000°C, it could not have been thermate, since thermate burns much hotter. What Mr. Nobles doesn't realize is that thermate can be formulated to burn at varying temperatures based on the quantity of the elements in it. A calculation for how the eutectic mixture could have approached 1000°C has been worked out by Jerry Lobdill in discussing the molten metal flowing out of WTC 2:
"Now consider the problem of the molten metal flowing from the 82nd floor of WTC 2. Some have suggested that this metal was the eutectic mixture of Fe and S. Let’s discuss that possibility. We assume that the steel that is cut from the columns is essentially pure Fe. It is melted and mixes with the thermate reaction products and then flows away by gravity. As the mixture cools, if the original molten mix was at S less than 31.4%, Fe begins to crystallize out. This increases the S% in the remaining mix. As the cooling continues, the S% increases until it reaches 31.4%, and this remaining molten eutectic mixture solidifies at 994 C (or 988 C, depending on which measurement you believe). So unless the original S% was 31.4%, the molten mass is crystallizing out solidified Fe as it flows downhill and cools. When, in the cooling process, the molten mass reaches the eutectic composition, it also reaches the eutectic temperature. At that temperature the remaining liquid gives up its latent heat of fusion and crystallizes as a microscopically heterogeneous solid with a (macroscopically) 31.4% S, 68.6% Fe composition. Once all the material has solidified the entire mass resumes cooling. We thus have a plausible explanation of why the material flowing from WTC 2 was orange-hot liquid (~1000 C)."
There are clearly many variations of thermite, thermate, and other incendiaries that can be formulated to reach higher and lower temperatures, as pointed out by Dr. Steven Jones."
Booo!
Wow in addition to being completely crazy you're also extremely stupid. Where does sunstealer say at any point in my link that it was not thermate because thermate burns hotter? Are you too stupid to see that the made the argument that we don't even know what temperature was reached (in addition to other points?). You're a dumb ass.
Hi Anon,
Before we examine the evidence, let me explain how I know that you are scared. You are scared of me. You are scared of what it would mean to you if it turned out that the Truthers were right. So, before we go any further, take a deep breath, relax, and ask yourself, "If 9/11 Truthers are right, what would that mean for me?" When you answer that question honestly and seriously, you will realize that you are scared. And it shows.
Now on to the evidence.
First, FEMA's appendix C:
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/fema_wtc/fema403_apc.pdf
Excuse me. That was supposed to be, "You are NOT scared of me."
From FEMA we learn,
" A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel."
So I'm not sure what sun stealer meant by a "solid state," but obviously FEMA was talking about a liquid eutectic mixture.
Finally, we have sun stealer's point that there is no trace of aluminum. I haven't found a good answer to that yet, but I'm still looking. I have found Jerry Lobdill's analysis, who is a chemical engineer and physicist, and seems to have no problem with the lack of aluminum:
Thermite Chemistry and WTC
But I'll keep looking for a better answer on the lack of aluminum.
It's very clear you don't understand sun stealers post which is not surprising. It's fun watching you wallow in your own stupidity. It's not fear, it's amusement.
This last comment of yours isn't fear-based, and that's good to see. I'm still looking for an answer to the lack of aluminum in the metallurgical analysis.
I contacted and got a reply from Debunking the Debunkers:
"Well, in a thermate reaction, the aluminum is converted into aluminum oxide and then disperses in the air without clumping together with the molten iron. This was basically what chemical engineer Mark Basile told us when we raised the issue to him before."
Assuming they're telling the truth, then we now have two chemical engineers, Jerry Lobdill and Mark Basile, who think the FEMA corroded metal samples were caused by thermate, and see no problem with not finding aluminum in the metal, along with an explanation as to why it wouldn't be there.
So here's a scenario: The thermate cuts the steel. The aluminum oxide disperses into the air, while the molten iron, oxygen, and sulfur continue to melt the steel as it steeps in the ground for weeks or months, until it is finally collected by FEMA.
I'm curious what sun stealer would say to this.
I should give Debunking the Debunkers' site:
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/
I just got confirmation on Mark Basile's opinion on what would happen to the aluminum from Dr. Joel S. Hirschhorn, former professor of metallurgical engineering at the University of Wisconsin, who also gave permission to cite him:
"Yes, I agree; the odds are totally against finding aluminum in the post-explosion residual materials, including molten steel."
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